tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post7856711366989022358..comments2024-01-29T01:32:16.780-07:00Comments on 704 Houser Street: Disputing the StatsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-36642261603443897662015-02-26T12:46:44.108-07:002015-02-26T12:46:44.108-07:00Res Ipsa: " Plenty of kids get drunk and puke...<b>Res Ipsa: "<i> Plenty of kids get drunk and puke without anyone being the wiser. It only seems to be when someone is in serious trouble that they find out about it, so that may be a self selecting aspect that would effect his data too.</i>"</b><br /><br />True. The ones who purge the alcohol from their systems before it can be absorbed to toxic levels won't even register in most cases.<br /><br />I ran across <a href="http://adai.washington.edu/marijuana/factsheets/alcohol.htm" rel="nofollow">this "factsheet"</a> from out of Australia, which seems to contradict the inability to regurgitate aspect and claims it can be precisely opposite:<br /><br />"<i>What are the effects of mixing marijuana and alcohol?<br /><br />When people smoke marijuana and drink alcohol at the same time they can experience nausea and/or vomiting or they can react with panic, anxiety or paranoia. Mixing marijuana with alcohol can increase the risk of vulnerable people experiencing psychotic symptoms.<br /><br />There is some evidence to support that having alcohol in your blood causes a faster absorption of THC (the active ingredient in marijuana that causes intoxication). This can lead to the marijuana having a much stronger effect than it would normally have and could result in ‘greening out’. Greening out is a term commonly referred to in a situation where people feel sick after smoking marijuana. They can go pale and sweaty, feel dizzy, nauseous and may even start vomiting. They usually feel they have to lie down straight away.<br /><br />It appears that this is more likely to happen if a person has been drinking alcohol before smoking marijuana rather than the other way around.</i>"<br /><br />No studies mentioned to support the "facts", so take them for what they're worth.WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-4021289623941785762015-02-26T00:14:33.098-07:002015-02-26T00:14:33.098-07:00It could, however, be an individual response type ...<b>It could, however, be an individual response type thing,</b><br /><br />I agree. I also know via a cop friend of mine that locally we are seeing an increase locally in youth related alcohol poisoning where the kids are getting stoned and drunk at the same time and not being able to regurgitate the alcohol. <br /><br />In his opinion the quality of pot available to high school age kids has increased significantly due to being able to get it in CO cheaply. Also according to him, the trend in alcohol poisoning in the 14 to 20 age bracket has increased significantly in and around areas with pot legalization. His data comes from other law enforcement people.<br /><br />I suspect that kids are drinking about the same as they would. I suspect that they are over doing it about the same too. I think what may be happening is that the police are getting involved more either because of being called into the ER, or because being called out on 911 medical calls by paramedics. Otherwise, how would the cops find out? Plenty of kids get drunk and puke without anyone being the wiser. It only seems to be when someone is in serious trouble that they find out about it, so that may be a self selecting aspect that would effect his data too.Res Ipsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433725505878267643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-9530829641445359442015-02-25T18:22:05.751-07:002015-02-25T18:22:05.751-07:00Susan (from the other post): "Linda McCartney...<b>Susan (from the other post): "<i>Linda McCartney was a heavy pot smoker and died of breast cancer that metastasized into her lungs.</i>"</b><br /><br />...and? Many women who contract breast cancer and subsequently die (my mother-in-law, metastasized throughout her body) never smoked pot once in their lives. Other women have smoked pot their entire lives and never got breast cancer. Until there's an actual causation effect pinpointed, this means nothing.<br /><br />Linda McCartney was also a tobacco smoker, so attributing it solely to pot is a bit of cherry-picking, too.<br /><br /><b>"<i>So I have a real problem with libertarians who try to tell me that pot is harmless. It is not. </i>"</b><br /><br />I am not aware of any prominent libertarians who have ever made this claim, not even <a href="http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/bill-maher-marijuana-102607.html" rel="nofollow">Bill Maher</a>, who only claimed that it was "way less dangerous" than alcohol. And if this article is, in fact, correct -- he was right.WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-87534593319971803022015-02-25T17:56:56.250-07:002015-02-25T17:56:56.250-07:003. The 114 times number itself comes from this tab...3. The 114 times number itself comes from <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/bin/srep08126-s1.doc" rel="nofollow">this table</a>; it is the ratio of the Mean (average) Margin of Exposure (MOE) of alcohol (1.3) to THC (149). And is meaningless, IMO; it would be far more meaningful on a relative basis to use raw numbers, as is done in comparing deaths by dog bite to deaths by lightning strike (e.g., you're more likely to die from dog bite [2014:42] than you are from lightning [2014:26]).<br /><br />4. Apparently none of the data involved actual human deaths, so while the point about mixing alcohol and THC may be logical in theory, it cannot be derived from this study. Anecdotally, I can assure you that mixing the two does not prevent a person from vomiting excess alcohol -- I've been to too many parties and witnessed it happening too many times in my youth to give the theory general credence. (It could, however, be an individual response type thing, just as some people can die from eating peanuts because of allergy.)WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-77065383752242110752015-02-25T17:56:06.066-07:002015-02-25T17:56:06.066-07:001. The headline as listed appeared on the linked L...1. The headline as listed appeared on the linked Lew Rockwell article, but it originally came from <a href="http://rt.com/usa/234903-marijuana-safer-alcohol-deadly/" rel="nofollow">Russia Today</a>, which has the same headline. But the Russia Today headline is based on a Tweet (embedded in their article) from some account named The Stoned Society, which itself referred to <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/" rel="nofollow">the original Washington Post article</a>, which made no headline reference to safety. I suspect somebody at RT has an agenda, then.<br /><br />2. The study itself <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/" rel="nofollow">is available online here</a>. There are numerous problems with it from an accuracy standpoint, not the least of which is that -- with the exception of alcohol -- the majority of its data comes from previously conducted animal studies. They also did population-wide studies based on chemical traces in sewage, and interviews with drug users.<br /><br />To extrapolate toxic levels of chemical overdose from relative levels of those chemicals in mice, rats, rabbits, etc, and to extrapolate individual exposure using predictive analysis from there, just does not lend itself to making the type of accuracy statement evidenced in the headline. That can only be attributed to shoddy journalism, as the study authors also did not make that claim.WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-16811673594719126492015-02-25T17:53:33.689-07:002015-02-25T17:53:33.689-07:00WTH? I published a long-ish response to the OP tw...WTH? I published a long-ish response to the OP twice and it disappeared both times.<br /><br />Let me try breaking it up and see if it sticks...WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-50203145306660078522015-02-25T17:51:10.908-07:002015-02-25T17:51:10.908-07:00Susan: "I don't recall any verses about J...<b>Susan: "<i>I don't recall any verses about Jesus enjoying a smoke with the apostles, do you?</i>"</b><br /><br />No. Nor do I recall any verses about tobacco, or beer, or coffee, or cola or tea, either.<br /><br />Guess the Mormons are right, then? ;)<br /><br />However, there is this from Genesis 1:<br /><br /><i>12 And the earth brought forth grass, and <b>herb yielding seed after his kind</b>, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.<br /><br />29 And God said, Behold, <b>I have given you every herb bearing seed</b>, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.</i><br /><br />Notice the bolded parts: would this not cover all of the above items? Were they not also good?<br /><br />Cannabis was used in the region since before Jesus' time, so it's possible He encountered it even if there was no mention of it.WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-9830622628363708912015-02-25T17:39:24.593-07:002015-02-25T17:39:24.593-07:00Rabbi B recently educated me about the water into ...Rabbi B recently educated me about the water into wine miracle. It's a Jewish thing and interesting, because its best understood from their pov.Res Ipsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433725505878267643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-6076063477603872192015-02-25T17:30:01.795-07:002015-02-25T17:30:01.795-07:00Try this again, the first one disappeared:
1. The...Try this again, the first one disappeared:<br /><br />1. The headline as listed appeared on the linked Lew Rockwell article, but it originally came from <a href="http://rt.com/usa/234903-marijuana-safer-alcohol-deadly/" rel="nofollow">Russia Today</a>, which has the same headline. But the Russia Today headline is based on a Tweet (embedded in their article) from some account named The Stoned Society, which itself referred to <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/" rel="nofollow">the original Washington Post article</a>, which made no headline reference to safety. I suspect somebody at RT has an agenda, then.<br /><br />2. The study itself <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/" rel="nofollow">is available online here</a>. There are numerous problems with it from an accuracy standpoint, not the least of which is that -- with the exception of alcohol -- the majority of its data comes from previously conducted animal studies. They also did population-wide studies based on chemical traces in sewage, and interviews with drug users.<br /><br />To extrapolate toxic levels of chemical overdose from relative levels of those chemicals in mice, rats, rabbits, etc, and to extrapolate individual exposure using predictive analysis from there, just does not lend itself to making the type of accuracy statement evidenced in the headline. That can only be attributed to shoddy journalism, as the study authors also did not make that claim.<br /><br />3. The 114 times number itself comes from <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/bin/srep08126-s1.doc" rel="nofollow">this table</a>; it is the ratio of the Mean (average) Margin of Exposure (MOE) of alcohol (1.3) to THC (149). And is meaningless, IMO; it would be far more meaningful on a relative basis to use raw numbers, as is done in comparing deaths by dog bite to deaths by lightning strike (e.g., you're more likely to die from dog bite [2014:42] than you are from lightning [2014:26]).<br /><br />4. Apparently none of the data involved actual human deaths, so while the point about mixing alcohol and THC may be logical in theory, it cannot be derived from this study. Anecdotally, I can assure you that mixing the two does not prevent a person from vomiting excess alcohol -- I've been to too many parties and witnessed it happening too many times in my youth to give the theory general credence. (It could, however, be an individual response type thing, just as some people can die from eating peanuts because of allergy.)WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-72001398749693073412015-02-25T17:00:14.810-07:002015-02-25T17:00:14.810-07:001. The headline as listed appeared on the linked L...1. The headline as listed appeared on the linked Lew Rockwell article, but it originally came from <a href="http://rt.com/usa/234903-marijuana-safer-alcohol-deadly/" rel="nofollow">Russia Today</a>, which has the same headline. But the Russia Today headline is based on a Tweet (embedded in their article) from some account named The Stoned Society, which itself referred to <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/" rel="nofollow">the original Washington Post article</a>, which made no headline reference to safety. I suspect somebody at RT has an agenda, then.<br /><br />2. The study itself <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/" rel="nofollow">is available online here</a>. There are numerous problems with it from an accuracy standpoint, not the least of which is that -- with the exception of alcohol -- the majority of its data comes from previously conducted animal studies. They also did population-wide studies based on chemical traces in sewage, and interviews with drug users.<br /><br />To extrapolate toxic levels of chemical overdose from relative levels of those chemicals in mice, rats, rabbits, etc, and to extrapolate individual exposure using predictive analysis from there, just does not lend itself to making the type of accuracy statement evidenced in the headline. That can only be attributed to shoddy journalism, as the study authors also did not make that claim.<br /><br />3. The 114 times number itself comes from <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/bin/srep08126-s1.doc" rel="nofollow">this table</a>; it is the ratio of the Mean (average) Margin of Exposure (MOE) of alcohol (1.3) to THC (149). And is meaningless, IMO; it would be far more meaningful on a relative basis to use raw numbers, as is done in comparing deaths by dog bite to deaths by lightning strike (e.g., you're more likely to die from dog bite [2014:42] than you are from lightning [2014:26]).<br /><br />4. Apparently none of the data involved actual human deaths, so while the point about mixing alcohol and THC may be logical in theory, it cannot be derived from this study. Anecdotally, I can assure you that mixing the two does not prevent a person from vomiting excess alcohol -- I've been to too many parties and witnessed it happening too many times in my youth to give the theory general credence. (It could, however, be an individual response type thing, just as some people can die from eating peanuts because of allergy.)WaterBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-80721011082095348392015-02-25T16:27:48.970-07:002015-02-25T16:27:48.970-07:00How did my comment about marijuana get into a diff...How did my comment about marijuana get into a different post about accents? I am pretty sure I wasn't in that post quite yet.Susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22583491.post-16680739629145328712015-02-25T16:24:56.755-07:002015-02-25T16:24:56.755-07:00Almost forgot. If that were true about the safety...Almost forgot. If that were true about the safety of pot vs alcohol, then why was the first miracle of Jesus water into very fine wine? To put people in danger would have been a sin, and would have disqualified Jesus from dying for us on the cross.<br />I don't recall any verses about Jesus enjoying a smoke with the apostles, do you?Susannoreply@blogger.com