All in the Family featured the curmudgeonly Archie Bunker. Archie was television’s most famous grouch, blunt, blustering, straightforward and untouched by the PC crowd. He was the archetype of the conservative male. Michael desprately tried to reeducate him, but he persisted in his breviloquence.



Looking back at the last 40 years, we realize: ARCHIE WAS RIGHT!

4/05/2016

Pseudomonarchia Daemonum

I'm going to pose a series of questions.  My regular readers and friends who stop by will probably see this exercise as very odd, even odder than my normal esoteric ramblings.  I very much want to see what responses you all have on this topic and appreciate you taking the time to respond in the comments.  My main objective is to see if anyone has meaningful insight into my last question.

Do you believe in creatures/beings called "demons"?

Why and/or how do you know they are real?

In what ways do they interact with humans?

Do you think it is possible for a demon to interact with one human in order to harm a different human?

If you answered in the affirmative to any of the above, how do you tell the difference between demonic influence and mental illness apart from a medical condition caused by normal physical phenomena?

Any other thoughts you may have along these lines are appreciated too.

24 comments:

  1. Do you believe in creatures/beings called "demons"?

    Yes.

    Why and/or how do you know they are real?

    The Bible tells me so.

    In what ways do they interact with humans?

    Inhabit them. Control them. Speak through them. Keep them mute.

    cf. numerous Scriptural examples (epileptic being thrown in the fire, demons leaving a group of people naked and bleeding in Acts, Legion, Y'shua's teaching about unclean spirits leaving and returning to re-inhabit someone with even more unclean spirits, etc.)

    Jewish tradition has a lot to say about demons and the demonized. I won't clutter up the blog, but I could point you to some material in an email, if you're interested.

    Do you think it is possible for a demon to interact with one human in order to harm a different human?



    Yes. (cf. Legion in Matthew 5 and Luke 8 really good info here)

    Also, acts 19:

    God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

    Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed.

    They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?”

    Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.


    If you answered in the affirmative to any of the above, how do you tell the difference between demonic influence and mental illness apart from a medical condition caused by normal physical phenomena?

    That's a tougher question . . . for example, I have always wondered about Tourettes, and when it manifests itself in profanity-laden outbursts or derogatory remarks . . . demonic influence would seem to behave very similarly in the presence of people who were filled with G-d's Spirit, much like they behaved in the presence of Y'shua, the disciples, and Paul ...

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    1. I accept everything that you said. The part that I'm working through is the difference between legitimate mental illness and someone who is genuinely evil due to outside influence. BTW I'm not discounting the effects of someone's personal sin nature, which could be very advanced and account for "evil" without a "demon".

      If we accept that sin, mental illness and demonic influence (possession or oppression) are real phenomena, then there should be a way to tell them apart.

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    2. My dear and respected friend... there is no differential diagnosis for Demon. Not a definitive one anyway.

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  2. I most certainly do believe they exist. Just look at the faces of some of the major crazies of our times, from Charles Manson on down to the theater shooter and Adam Lanza. The eyes are a definite "tell".

    One of my friends has a very physically imposing husband. He worked for the Oregon State Hospital for several years. Being a man of God Res, when he worked in the high security wing, he would literally get physically sickened walking near some of the cells. As soon as he would step out of that wing, he would get better. Needless to say, he transferred out of that wing ASAP.

    Then when he worked admitting, he had two different occasions where little bitty women somehow managed to literally knock him on his can. We are talking about a guy who is 6'3" and very muscled who spent a tour in Iraq. We are talking two different women who were maybe 105lbs soaking wet knocking him down.

    I am somebody who loves scary movies. I had a nice collection of them. One Sunday, during a Sermon, the pastor suddenly adopted what I call his Fire Chief voice. I am convinced to this day that was God sending me a message to clean out that collection. I can't remember the exact words, but the tone of his voice startled me so much I went home and did it the next day.

    While I was doing it, I suddenly started having a severe panic attack. I don't get panic attacks. For some reason unknown to me at the time, I had picked up a free CD with inspirational music on it. So in mid panic attack, I popped that sucker into the player and let it cleanse the room. After the second play through, I could feel the panic leaving me.

    Another thing too was that my cats refused to come into the living room for TWO days. They loved that room, but whatever it was, scared them so badly that not only did they hide in the family room downstairs they would not go near the spot where the bags of DVD's were sitting.

    So when you ask us do we believe, I say heck yeah. Be very careful of what you let into your minds folks. You never know what you are in.

    This is also why I do not trust Ted Cruz. I have sensed an unclean spirit around his campaign for months now. Look at the kind of people he attracts and supports. Like attracts like. An honest man like Trump attracts decent people around him. Cruz has the loon division.

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    1. Susan,

      I never used to put much stock in personal testimonials about encounters with evil manifestations similar to what you've written. I've changed my mind about that. I think that there is more credibility in some of these accounts than we will ever know. My eyes have become opened to seeing things from a different stand point.

      Your answer, if I'm following you correctly, leads me to the conclusion that the only way to know is some form of direct, individual, revelation. The form of that revelation could very form person to person or from incident to incident. Your example of the mental hospital is a good one. The example of a feeling of dread or a desire to avoid certain locations is very common. I think its interesting that people who are not religious also report this experience.

      It seems like there should be a more objective method that is accurate whenever it is used.

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    2. Susan2:53 PM

      I had another incident happen years ago. One Saturday while my husband was out of town, I had a horrible feeling of something was trying to attack my mind. It was so bad, I took myself to the local DQ and bought some lunch. After about an hour, the feelings subsided and I went home.

      Then I went to church the next day and found I was not the only one who experienced the attack. One of my dear friends not only had the very same issue at the same time I did, but she didn't recover as well as I did.
      She had some serious emotional issues relating to being around others that lasted for several months. IIRC, it was also around the time I had gotten baptized too.

      I think people are scared to admit that this stuff does exist. I think that when you get the feelings of dread, or fear or even panic, it is the Holy Spirit telling you to get out of there quick or to drop to your knees and ask for help.

      Satan will attack you at your weakest point, at any time or anywhere. I know sometimes it sounds so tin foil, but that is the only way to see it sometimes, is personal experience.

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  3. Several years ago bumped into something in a church being used by our home school group. There was one room that would have all the children crying in no time. Being of more scientific bent I thought it was something to do with the building (like molds, lighting or infrasonic). After adjusting light, airflow, putting in an air filter and very thorough cleaning the effect was still there.
    We stopped having the little ones in that room. I think they still pick up on things we've forgotten about as we grow up.

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    1. Susan2:54 PM

      Yes they do. So will your family pets if you pay attention.

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  4. The idea about hauntings is interesting. I'm more focused on individual cases. It may very well be that the ability to discern the truth in a situation is an individual gifting, but I don't have convincing evidence that it is strictly limited.

    1 Cor 12:4-11 says: "the ability to distinguish between spirits"

    1 John 4:1 tells us to test them.

    The 1 Cor passage indicates a gifting or special ability. The 1 John passage seems to indicate a more universal ability to "test".

    Thoughts?

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    1. Well, after reading that passage in Corinthians, a point was also made about "spiritual gifts, ONE Spirit". I am wondering if that has something to do with how a person's individual make up reacts with an infusion of the HS? Maybe the HS is made up of ALL gifts of God's power, but the HS was designed to react to certain personality traits, quirks, etc.

      Kind of like when you give the same recipe to say, a dozen cooks. That recipe will not have the same results when finished. It might look the same maybe, but when you get into each pot and start tasting, there are subtle differences based on how each INDIVIDUAL dealt with and interpreted that recipe.

      This to me is just another reminder that GOD created us, and He knows us best, inside and out. He knows our personality, our mind, heart and our capability of performance. Not everyone is capable of doing the same things. They just are not. Remember how Jesus told Peter that he would deny Jesus 3 times? Jesus/God just KNEW.
      That is another bit of evidence about the glory of God's creation and His talents. No detail, no matter how miniscule, escapes His righteous eye. God just KNOWS.

      In fact, what some people call evolution, I would call a built in adaptability put into creation by God. He intended His work to last for as long as HE wanted it to, under any changes in circumstance, and no mortal being will destroy it. Severely damage maybe, but destroy completely? Not a chance.

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    2. I see what you are saying, the recipe is a great word picture. I agree with it. It's a good parallel.

      Here's the thing, I can take scripture on a subject, like the Holy Spirit and learn how to connect with Him. I can take those same scriptures and teach or mentor someone so that they too can connect and receive His presence in their life. It seems to me that on any "universal" manifestation this is true.

      There has to be scripture, or at least a solid remez or derash on this and I'm not seeing it.

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    3. With very rare exceptions, like the 10 commandments, God gives us plenty of information in the Bible, but He wants us to dig, study and work to find out the information.
      He isn't real big on sheeple as far as I can figure.

      I believe that God understands that His creation learns better lessons when they experience finding the knowledge themselves, rather than simply being told by somebody else.

      Look at the 40 days that Jesus spent in the wilderness. Satan was there the whole time, like an infected hangnail, nibbling at his ear.

      Then there is the case of Judas. I believe that he was filled with an unclean spirit that enabled him to betray Jesus.

      Judas was not keeping up his spiritual needs, which weakened his resistance. I believe this to be true because as soon as he saw what happened, he was filled with deep remorse over what he did.
      So much so that he committed suicide. That remorse signifies a normal mind IMO.

      I also believe that when Jesus was on the cross, he was also having to deal with Satan's ear nibblings as his final test of worthiness.

      It isn't obvious or laid out in simple black and white terms regarding the subject of Satan and his minions. But there is enough, that if you think about it, and compare and observe the world around you, you should be able to see things just fine.

      I also believe that God doesn't want us to focus our attention on the temporary or the fleeting things of this world. Believe it or not, that is exactly what Satan is. He has an end of story coming, and he knows it. God wants our focus on HIM and eternity, not the fleeting and corrupted world.

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  5. Do you believe in creatures/beings called "demons"?

    Yes.

    Why and/or how do you know they are real?

    The Bible tells me so.

    In what ways do they interact with humans?

    Usually in subtle ways. I person that was fully aware of them would fear them.

    Do you think it is possible for a demon to interact with one human in order to harm a different human?

    I don't see why not.

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  6. WaterBoy5:26 PM

    Res Ipsa: "how do you tell the difference between demonic influence and mental illness apart from a medical condition caused by normal physical phenomena?"

    Beyond the detection of spirits already mentioned, one way would be the reaction of the afflicted to purely medical treatment (vs. spiritual treatment).

    For example, some cases of bipolar disorder include hearing "voices"...which can also be experienced during demonic possessions. However, treatment by drugs to restore proper brain chemistry balance is also successful in eliminating those voices in the process. Successful treatment on a physical level (rather than a spiritual one) might differentiate the two cases.

    I ran across something that might help shed some additional light on the subject: 3 signs of demonic influence. A companion article on detecting the presence of demons is here. In both articles, there are scriptural references that may provide additional foundation for that which you are seeking.

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    1. Anonymous7:48 PM

      Waterboy,

      You are the most insightful agnostic I know. Those links were helpful, thank you.

      You aren't too far from the Kingdom, come on over to our side. We have cookies, and eternal life.

      Res

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    2. WaterBoy3:46 AM

      Well, I'm not really a big fan of unleavened cookies, you know...

      But thanks for the compliment!

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    3. WaterBoy,

      Why do you think that our cookies are unleavened, or was that a reference to the wafer that the Catholic church uses?

      I can understand how you feel though about organized religion. Right now I have such an anger in my heart for Ted Cruz and his exploiting and manipulation of the honest Christian faith of the voters. I loathe his behavior. It is just evil and rotted.

      It is hard to stay on the true path with all the buffeting right now. But keep your eye on that big eternal prize WB. It is right to be cynical and wary of some of what passes for "religion" now.

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    4. WaterBoy1:40 PM

      Only a jest, Susan. ;)

      "Luke, come to the Dark Side."

      "But I can't see anything over there! Can I at least get a candle?!?"

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    5. My reference to cookies was more of a pot luck thing. The donuts, pies and cakes are pretty good too. Church coffee can be less than desirable. I'm sure some forward thinking congregation has a latte and Frappuccino ministry to take the edge off midmorning worship services.

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    6. WaterBoy2:44 PM

      It also ties into those wealth seminars, that promise you a free meal at a local restaurant...but only if you sit through a "short" presentation first.

      The similarities are... eerie....:)

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    7. Susan3:19 PM

      The church I used to go to did indeed have a coffee bar, but we used it to raise money to send to the two orphanages in Mexico that this church supports. We can usually send around $600 to each orphanage per year for extras for the orphanages.

      On Sundays, most people come a little early for fellowship in the church lobby, so why not keep their Sunday treat money for use by the church rather than McD's or some other place?

      Pot lucks at that church also were fantastic. Nobody cooks better than church ladies.

      With all the stories now about food poisonings and other issues in restaurants, With the exception of maybe two places in my area, I no longer have any desire to eat out.

      Given the high population of illegals in the restaurant industry, I also don't like the notion of paying for someone to spit in my food.

      Having an RN for a daughter has changed my way of thinking on MANY levels with regards to sanitation and germ control.

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  7. Athor Pel10:21 AM

    Do you believe in creatures/beings called "demons"?
    Yes.

    Why and/or how do you know they are real?
    Jesus and the apostles confronted them on the regular and the demons knew who He was. I've also seen their influence in my life and in other people's lives.

    In what ways do they interact with humans?
    You've got three voices in your head, yours, God's and Satan's. The demons are responsible for Satan's voice, the Holy Spirit is responsible for God's. Who you listen to most is what you end up doing. How that influence manifests is an individual thing.

    Do you think it is possible for a demon to interact with one human in order to harm a different human?
    Yes. It's a two-fer for the demon. Alienation for the harmer and damage for the harmee. It's what they do and who they are. Always.

    If you answered in the affirmative to any of the above, how do you tell the difference between demonic influence and mental illness apart from a medical condition caused by normal physical phenomena?
    If you are prayed up and know the Word then your discernment should be good enough to tell the degree of influence when it matters. Spiritual influence will always be there no matter who you are. If it needs to get dealt with then the Holy Spirit will give help when needed.

    I have a question for you. What evidence do you have proving any mental illness is a purely material condition?

    Any other thoughts you may have along these lines are appreciated too.
    If you need help with spiritual warfare then reading some Derek Prince books can help as well as obviously paying attention to every demonic interaction detailed in scripture.

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    1. I believe one of the reasons that God is so angry about people who abuse kids is that when a child is young, their minds are still very soft and still forming. When somebody seriously abuses a child, that child will eventually try and find a spot of refuge in their minds so they can survive the abuse. That is not a normal function of the mind, and it opens gateways for evil to come in.

      My most dearest friend is such an example. She spent her childhood being the target of some very angry abuse from her adoptive mother. So in order to survive, her mind split. It split so completely that she started hearing voices when she became a teenager.

      As a very young woman, she had thoughts of suicide and the voices also told her to shoplift and a few other things. When we first met, I didn't realize how bad off she was. But as our friendship grew, I realized that God put me in her path to keep her here on earth. And to give her something she has never had, a normal person in her life.

      She found a great church to attend where she lives, and she also found a counselor who gave her the emotional tools that most of us get while we grow up. She never had that. So she now has the strength of mind to stop listening to the voices, and to stay healthy.

      I believe that a lot of what we call "split personality" or "multiple personality" is as a result of that mind splitting. The mind fracturing is like an open door for Satan's minions to do their worst.

      Honestly, I don't believe that all the mental health problems that we have in this country are organic. I believe a lot of it is indeed due to bad spiritual influence that most people don't acknowledge even exists.

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    2. Athor Pel,

      I have a question for you. What evidence do you have proving any mental illness is a purely material condition?

      Short answer, I don't.

      Long answer: There are some conditions that I believe have a basis in medical science. A person who develops seizures as a result of a head injury in a car crash, isn't suffering demonic possession. That same person could also suffer other issues like dramatic personality changes as a result of the injury. We see similar phenomena with diabetics and blood sugar issues and with people suffering from a lack of vital nutrients or chemicals in their body, such as neurotransmitters or vitamin d required for making essential regulatory chemicals.

      In those kinds of cases patients can be helped by fixing a known, observable, condition.

      Where this gets tricky from my POV, is in determining what I'm going to call "normal sin" issues and demonic issues. As humans we have lots of problems that are a result of our own sin. The Devil, at least directly, had nothing to do in making us do something evil. To steal a line from Zeppelin, "It's nobody's fault but mine".

      On the other hand, there is evil that is fuelled with more than man's "normal sin". It comes from someplace darker. It has a deeper purpose. There is a larger desired outcome than the immediate fulfillment of man's agenda.

      I am studying, and praying over this situation. I'm also looking for Godly Council, in real life and hear with my net friends.




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