All in the Family featured the curmudgeonly Archie Bunker. Archie was television’s most famous grouch, blunt, blustering, straightforward and untouched by the PC crowd. He was the archetype of the conservative male. Michael desprately tried to reeducate him, but he persisted in his breviloquence.



Looking back at the last 40 years, we realize: ARCHIE WAS RIGHT!

5/13/2013

Game Case Study

I don't know if this is of interest to anyone but I'd like your input into the situation.  Because of a social connection, I've made the acquaintance of a young female who has just turned 20.  She recognizes her need to make significant changes in her life and on my advice she has made some changes and is working on others.

For purposes of the case study I will name her Ms. Black. 

THE FACTS

Ms. Black is a white 20 year old female.  She has tried smoking pot but does not enjoy illegal drug use and is anti recreational drugs. She does smoke tobacco and drink alcohol.  She is about 5ft tall and weighs well over 200lbs.  Although well rounded her facial features are of average to slightly under average attractiveness.  She has long hair and a sizable bust, perhaps a size H.  I believe this helps account for her N=23.

Ms Black grew up in a rural town, population 5,000.  Her mother exemplifies hypergamony.  Her father abandoned her mother early in pregnancy.  Given the mothers hypergamous sexual history he may not have even known she was pregnant at the time.  By all accounts the father paid child support but never saw his child before her 16th birthday.  He is not involved in any meaningful way in her life.  The only source of a stable family life was the maternal grandfather.  The mother spent most of Ms. Blacks formative years pursuing her own interests at the expense of raising her daughter.

Until recently Ms Black had a sizable herd of beta/gamma orbiters as well was a heram of casual booty calls.   Some of these males lived with her on and off or would stick around for "sleep overs" lasting a few days at a time.  Several weeks ago she complained to me about her unhappiness with her life and the "lack of good men".  She has stated that what she wants out of life is a husband and family and that her desire is to be a stay at home mother.

About 3 weeks ago she started following my advice on several topics.  First, she eliminated the gamma orbiters and her harem. Second, her mother is no longer living in her apartment with her.  The last of her male "roommates" is set to move out on the 15th.  She has since gotten a female roommate.   In general she is removing the negative influences from her life.  She is being successful in losing weight.

Ms Black is aware of "game" concepts as they relate to female behavior.  I doubt that she has any concept of "game" as psychosexual manipulation.  She acknowledges that her past behavior makes future failure in her relationships likely and that her "statistic" (high N value) as she calls it, is a major life problem for her.

Since she began making changes in her lifestyle she has met a young man, Mr. Plaid.  Mr. Plaid may be Mr. Right and she is interested in finding out if he is, and more importantly making it work and not sabotaging the relationship with her hypergamony.  Mr. Plaid is aware that she has a past and has stated he does not want to know her N.  His N = 2.  Mr. Plaid was raised by the state.  He works as a roughneck.   Recently he has began attending a "cowboy" church on his days off.  Ms. Black attended church when she was a child but has no interest in the subject as an adult, and appears basically opposed to the idea of church.

One of her gamma orbiters sent her a text stating he did not want to "lose her".  Mr Plaid was working and not available, so she unwisely restarted an emotional relationship with the orbiter.  She told me about the situation.  Because of my response, she is more aware that her hypergamous pattern of behavior is repeating itself.

Thus far Mr. Plaid and Ms Black have not had sex with each other.  I advised Ms Black to wait for marriage, regardless of who the man may be and so far she agrees with that advice.

QUESTIONS

What would your advice be, in general terms, of how Ms Black can over come her hypergamony and have a successful monogamous marriage?

What steps should she take to get to that goal?

After marriage what steps should she take to build a solid relationship with her husband and guard against unfaithfulness?

What are any other side issues that I may not have addressed but should?



18 comments:

  1. Anonymous6:01 PM

    So how do you know this girl so well that she tells you this stuff?

    Bill

    ReplyDelete
  2. Res, this is a question for Dalrock or Vox.

    That being said, a couple of things stand out:

    - Stop screwing guys you're not going to marry. She's pretty much past that point, but more notches ain't gonna help.
    - Keep dropping the weight, she's about twice as heavy as she should be.
    - Quit smoking.
    - Stress that guys aren't with her because she's pretty, they're with her 'cause she's easy.


    If you think Mr. Plaid is good for her, it's easier to work with him to teach him how to keep her interest, than it is to reason with her.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Wow. All of that good info and now a place to fine LV handbags too. That's why I come here.

    I look at this from a slightly different point of view. In any relationship, there are two people. In this case, Mr Plaid is being conned. Throuogh clever marketing, he is beign sold a woman he thinks is fit, sane, and virtuous (because that is how she bahaves with him). But after marriage, she is very likely to put the pounds back on, and start collecting guys again. She isn't really changing. She is just changing on the surface to manipulate the market and get what she wants. Once she gets that, she will destroy it and Mr Plaid along with it.

    You are helping her perpetrate fraud.

    --Hale

    ReplyDelete
  4. I guess I should answer the questions you actually asked:

    1. I see no evidence that this is possible. She should live a chaste existence for at least three years as proof of her determination to change. Otherwise, this is a pointless exercise in pig lipstick.

    2. See 1.

    3. No male friendships. and practice total submission to her husband. But even this is unlikely to help. Any man that would have her automatically will lose her respect.

    4. No everyone deserves to have a good marriage to a nice man. Women who prepare for that and keep themselves for it move to the head of the line. Fat sluts get leftovers. leftovers aren't good choices to Long happy marriages. But all the good guys already settled down with "good" girls. That is fair. Reformed fat sluts are still fat sluts until they prove with LONG hard work that they have changed.

    --Hale

    ReplyDelete
  5. black9:56 AM

    Agree with Hale... Mr. Plaid will be taken to the cleaners and left out to dry.

    She isn't ready for a real relationship and won't be until she's happy with herself and proves it. Probably six months to a year, maybe longer.

    She shouldn't even consider marriage unless/until she comes to Christ and becomes a Biblical Christian. Same for Mr. Plaid.

    There are many good people out there who haven't been taught the skills and self-control to develop and maintain relationships, much less marriages.

    ReplyDelete
  6. One more thing. This girl had led the life of uncontrolled hedonism. Now she wants the same reward that the girls who practice self control get. On it's face, this isn't fair. Why would you help her? I agree that anyone can reform, but she has a LOT of catching up to do before you should help her ensnare a good man.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Bill,

    I talk to her about 5 times a week because we work near each other. I'm surprised how open kids are with this stuff too.

    ReplyDelete
  8. SDH,

    I sent Vox an email with a link asking for his thoughts. We'll see if he has time to respond.

    ReplyDelete
  9. PH,

    I agree with you about the slut wanting the nice guy and this being a risky deal for the boy.

    I don't know him. I've never met him. He works as a rough neck which means 14, 12 to 16 hrs days on the rig and 4 days off. I've done that kind of work and he's got to be one hard working kid to keep it up like he is.

    She asked me what she could do to change her life. Thats what I'm trying to help with. Is she going to be able to do it? I don't know. It freaked her out when she realized how fast she went back to one of her harem when Mr Plaid wasn't available to text her back. I think she is more serious about changing now that she has seen how quickly she returned to slut behavior.

    As for the Christian part, I agree. I'd have a bible study with her if she was open to it. She doesn't want that right now. She wants to not be a slut like her mother. I'm starting with what I have, not what I want.

    ReplyDelete
  10. SDH,

    I had no idea who Dalrock was so I checked out your link. If you know him, please have him take a crack at this too.

    ReplyDelete
  11. If a short fat 35 year old white guy came to you and wanted help getting a pro contract to play in the NBA, would you help him? Or would your best help be telling him that it is too late for him and he needs to establish more realistic goals?

    If a woman came to you and told you that she wanted your help getting cleaned up so that she could find a nice guy with a steady job and have his baby, and then divorce him and take himn so the cleaners so she could be set for life, would you help her? That's pretty much what you are doing, she is just smart enough to not be honest with you (or herself) about her motives.

    I like helping people too. But I won't help them hurt innocent people.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I understand your point.

    The girl just turned 20, should she hang it up and not improve her life at all?

    As far as money goes, she has enough on her own. The family has money and she stands to get most of it. Her employeer just offered to finish paying for her college and pay her salary while going to school. On top of that her starting pay after school will be in the mid $70K range.

    To have Mr Plaid she will have to move out of state and will lose the job offer. Which is all stuff she has to think about.

    I just want to see her chnge her behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Res, I don't know Dalrock at all. He's just a dude with a blog I think is interesting...kinda like here.

    I can't disagree with anything Hale has said, but if she really is sincere about changing her behaviour, I can understand your desire to help.

    Stingray and Sarah's Daughter, who regularly comment at VP, both have blogs where they discuss game from a women's perspective.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Her story resembles mine quite a bit with regards to her family situation and promiscuity. I highly doubt she is a sex addict, rather she gives sex in exchange for that one moment of validation. She gauges her self worth on her ability to have men attracted to her - even if they're only interested in sex.

    I highly recommend she find someone who she can be equally yoked with. By that I mean someone with as much to forgive in his past as she has. I honestly believe this is what kept my attraction to RLB so high. He had many previous partners but that wasn't as significant to me as knowing he'd proposed to someone before. I was not the first he wanted to marry. Call it dread if you will but it worked to make my hypergamy almost non existent. There is more to his story that I had to forgive but I'd rather not discuss that here. It was very easy for me to be honest with him about my past promiscuity because of the dark roads I knew he'd been down.

    Ideally and as it was with me and RLB, her husband will have come from a strong intact family but will have fallen from grace and is repairing his own life. She will need a family to model, and hopefully a mother-in-law to care for and mentor her. A man going through a prodigal son situation would be ideal, having his father available to help him navigate life with a broken woman.

    If she could be convinced to focus on her self improvement without a man in her life, this would be best. Losing weight, acknowledging the lies she's been living, working on her own self worth. But I highly doubt this will happen. Her need to not be alone is too strong now. Mr. Plaid needs to know her past and all of it. Anyone she would marry does for a whole host of reasons. First and foremost so he has the opportunity to forgive her and begin accepting it. With Mr. Plaid gone as often as he will be, there will be trust issues. Having lived the way she has, insecurity will be a big challenge for her. She's not been able to restrict her sexual behavior, why would her husband? Projection of her own moral failures will lead to accusations and a mess of a relationship.

    However, that too can be overcome. She at least attended church as a child. The hope is there that she will walk away from her rebellion and return to God. A masculine man who she is very attracted to will be able to guide her in this direction.

    I'm dubious about Mr. Plaid's low N. Raised by the state? And a rough neck? And only has been with two women? Also that he doesn't want to know her N. Unless he's on a mission to be CPT save-a-ho, I hesitate to believe his story. And, if she's already struggled with being committed to him, she's not highly attracted to him.

    When I met RLB, I couldn't even go to the bathroom for a week. I was sick to my stomach. Nervous every time I saw him. He was all I could talk about or think about.

    If you'd like to print out a couple of my posts or introduce her to my blog, she'll be able to read some of my story and see how it resembles her own. In particular Amazing Grace.

    Also, Res, be careful. It is very likely she pines for you as well.

    ReplyDelete
  15. To add, I've been married now for 18 years, have three children who I homeschool, and have never cheated on my husband.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Res Ipsa8:52 PM

    SarahsDaughter

    Thank you for a well thought out response. I will pass on your blog info when the time is right.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I think Sarah's Daughter hits the nail on the head. To reiterate a few things,

    1. This girl is going to have great difficulty overcoming the very real highs she has gotten from sleeping with 23 men and from maintaining orbiters and a harem. I think it is much like a drug addiction.

    2. I think SD makes an excellent point about the type of man she should be looking for and why.

    3. Mr. Plaid has my red flags popping up as well. He sounds beta to the core. Mind you, he may be a good man, but I do not think for a second that Ms. Black pines for him in anyway beyond the fact that he would treat he well, be a good father and give her some stability. Good things for sure, but I get a zero physical attraction vibe. If this is the case, and i would be VERY surprised to hear that it's not, it will not be very long before she very much resents him and does not understand why. She absolutely must find a man who she lusts for and respects. I don't think that is Mr. Plaid.

    4. She's 20. While not much, she does have some time. I also agree with SD in the need for her to pull completely away from men and work solely on herself. Go to the gym and lose the weight, back away from the high that she is getting from men, get her head on right. Reading some good books about God could solidify her so incredibly well (At this point I would not recommend the Bible because I think it would just scare her away).. I wouldn't know how to work that in for her as you said she is not interested. Some videos like The Catholicism Project would be excellent as they make a women better feel her faith. I don't know anything about it but The Bible that is currently on TV might be good for that as well. Bottom line, she she needs to ground herself in a meaningful way. Yes, a man she respects and is highly attracted to could do that, but she needs to start on her own. It will help her understand and move on from her past.

    5. I think her hamster will be quite strong. She is going to have to admit the truth to herself. It will cause her great pain, but once she has accepted it, she can move on in a meaningful way.

    6. If she does find a man to marry or if she decides to marry Mr. Plaid (completely agree he needs the unvarnished truth. Hiding from it does no one any good. It will eat at both of them), she has to understand FOREVER. Divorce is not an option. If she really thinks it is (and don't let her spin it with nonsense like "What if he abuses me?) then somewhere in her mind she thinks unconsciously that she can get children and a life from this man and then can move on when she has what she wants with some money from him to help her.

    I hope this helps. I truly believe that if she wants it, she can have a life. However, what she will need to do to change is enormous. I question whether or not she really understands that.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Stingray,

    Thank you for a very insightful response.

    ReplyDelete